Chaos;Head Noah (General)

[Parzival]

You raise a good point about the ending and how it ties into generally Takumi's character development as a whole & serves as a sort of conclusion to it. I'll have to see what I think about it when I get there this time; I was missing a lot of important information after all. I will say though that I don't think that it should necessarily should take precendence over the likelihood of events actually occurring, but it's been so long that I can't really remember why I thought it came off as asspull-ish haha.

I will say that I've never really seen anything in SciADV as much of an asspull because of things strongly implied in Noah and confirmed later in the series- facts which themselves are kind of an asspull tbh BUT the fact that they've been implied from the very beginning and all evidence indicates was always the plan makes me okkei :SerikaWink: with it

Basically, I'm Chiyomaru Shikura and Naotaka Hayashi's top guy

Legit though, I am curious to see why you thought that when you get to it, if you even still agree with that take at all

[Maypews]

Progress was a bit slow lately but over the last couple days I got through Yua's unveil and started Chapter 2. This scene always does make one pity Taku quite a bit as it becomes clear that she was just stringing him along the entire time just as he finally started to feel he was out of the woods with regard for the case and also feeling some small pang of attachment to another person. We get a little backstory and see him go to be checked on for sleepwalking, also really liked that little bit of foreshadowing with Suwa appearing/being mistaken for a teacher at the school lol.

One thing that has always irritated me about the Western fandom is that whole "you're not supposed to like Taku!" fan theory. Not only does it not really seem to line up with the original intention of the work but the backstory provides a pretty clear reason and rationale for why he turned out the way he did. Helicopter/overprotective parents are very bad for any kid's socialisation and his accidental premonition on the bus crash I can imagine would've only made them even moreso than they were before.

Today's Quote of the Day:

[Parzival]

One thing that has always irritated me about the Western fandom is that whole "you're not supposed to like Taku!" fan theory

SAME! This is a massive problem I have with the modern Western anime/VN/manga community as a whole tbh, everything is a critique or subversion or deconstruction. It says a lot that this talking point was non-existent when I first got into SciADV in 2011/2012, and didn't appear until around 2018, well into the Western culture war. All this time since the original release of Chaos;Head, Takumi clearly reads a certain way politically and culturally to the brainrotten Western mind, and therefore certain types cannot allow themselves to like him or the story unless they read it as some sort of scathing critique. I think you are supposed to like and understand Taku. I think he is, in some way, meant to embody the intended audience. He's clearly written by people who know, understand, and sympathize with his worldview and struggles. I think it also says a lot that not only does he get a happy ending when all is said and done, but Robotics;Notes later shows us via Twipo that his character doesn't really change all that much between 2009 and 2019. He's still largely the same old shut-in otaku who's not all that fond of the 3D world. The point of Chaos;Head isn't to shit on what at the time likely constituted a lot of MAGES' audience, but to show people like that that despite everything, life is worth living- that despite all the grim insanity of this world and the people in it, if someone like Takumi can, you too can find a will.

[Maypews]

One thing that has always irritated me about the Western fandom is that whole "you're not supposed to like Taku!" fan theory

SAME! This is a massive problem I have with the modern Western anime/VN/manga community as a whole tbh, everything is a critique or subversion or deconstruction. It says a lot that this talking point was non-existent when I first got into SciADV in 2011/2012, and didn't appear until around 2018, well into the Western culture war. All this time since the original release of Chaos;Head, Takumi clearly reads a certain way politically and culturally to the brainrotten Western mind, and therefore certain types cannot allow themselves to like him or the story unless they read it as some sort of scathing critique. I think you are supposed to like and understand Taku. I think he is, in some way, meant to embody the intended audience. He's clearly written by people who know, understand, and sympathize with his worldview and struggles. I think it also says a lot that not only does he get a happy ending when all is said and done, but Robotics;Notes later shows us via Twipo that his character doesn't really change all that much between 2009 and 2019. He's still largely the same old shut-in otaku who's not all that fond of the 3D world. The point of Chaos;Head isn't to shit on what at the time likely constituted a lot of MAGES' audience, but to show people like that that despite everything, life is worth living- that despite all the grim insanity of this world and the people in it, if someone like Takumi can, you too can find a will.

Love and 100% agree with your analysis here. For some reason you just aren't allowed to sympathise with any anti-social young man anymore. He HAS to be a villain or some groundbreaking subversion of the hikkineet trope lol.

Also I think I might read R;N next, will probably make a thread similar to this one about it, except as a first-time read as opposed to a re-read. I wonder if these would be good outlets for turning into just general discussion about the games once I finish my playthrough. I think it provides some pretty good content for the thread as opposed to just being empty and asking the repliers to make it themselves. Maybe I'll just rename this to like "Chaos;Head General (spoilers)" or something once I finish it, what do you think?

[Parzival]

Love and 100% agree with your analysis here. For some reason you just aren't allowed to sympathise with any anti-social young man anymore. He HAS to be a villain or some groundbreaking subversion of the hikkineet trope lol.

Thank you! Yeah, it's "strange" how people who supposedly view the world as being under the control of a malignant system (and even claim to view The Committee of 300 as a literalized stand-in for that system if you poke and prod them enough) don't like depictions of young men who can't or refuse to stand the world as it exists under that system!

Also I think I might read R;N next, will probably make a thread similar to this one about it, except as a first-time read as opposed to a re-read. I wonder if these would be good outlets for turning into just general discussion about the games once I finish my playthrough. I think it provides some pretty good content for the thread as opposed to just being empty and asking the repliers to make it themselves. Maybe I'll just rename this to like "Chaos;Head General (spoilers)" or something once I finish it, what do you think?

I like this idea all around. I think what separates a forum from, say, Twitter or Discord playthroughs is that this medium allows users to talk more in-depth about the games/VNs/whatever while someone goes through them or after, as opposed to just responding with more simple comments only during the playthrough.

Also yeah, 100% R;N next, I love the Robotics Club so much and I'm sure you will too!

[Blond]

SAME! This is a massive problem I have with the modern Western anime/VN/manga community as a whole tbh, everything is a critique or subversion or deconstruction. It says a lot that this talking point was non-existent when I first got into SciADV in 2011/2012, and didn't appear until around 2018, well into the Western culture war. All this time since the original release of Chaos;Head, Takumi clearly reads a certain way politically and culturally to the brainrotten Western mind, and therefore certain types cannot allow themselves to like him or the story unless they read it as some sort of scathing critique. I think you are supposed to like and understand Taku. I think he is, in some way, meant to embody the intended audience. He's clearly written by people who know, understand, and sympathize with his worldview and struggles. I think it also says a lot that not only does he get a happy ending when all is said and done, but Robotics;Notes later shows us via Twipo that his character doesn't really change all that much between 2009 and 2019. He's still largely the same old shut-in otaku who's not all that fond of the 3D world. The point of Chaos;Head isn't to shit on what at the time likely constituted a lot of MAGES' audience, but to show people like that that despite everything, life is worth living- that despite all the grim insanity of this world and the people in it, if someone like Takumi can, you too can find a will.

100% agree with this. I see this trend with VN fans, and especially anime fans, where everything is really a subversion or a deconstruction. “Nah, bro, Evangelion is not a love letter to Mazinger Z. It was actually a critique to otakus all along. Never in the history of anime has a mecha show focused on the psychology of the characters.” If everything is a deconstruction, what are we even deconstructing in the first place?

[Maypews]

Finished up another session, this one was probably my longest yet as I went through a chapter and a bit more in my sitting as the game has kind of hooked me. Taku goes to the FES concert and sees her Di-sword, also has an encounter with Sena and then on top of that the Demon Girl in the flesh barges in on him as well and he has no memories of her. Poor dude's getting barraged :GeroSmug:

Man I remember on my first read when the 4th New Gen case occurs and that "Whose Eyes Are Those Eyes?" appears on the wall written in blood it really freaked me out. Still made me jump a bit even on re-read. Then he gets interrogated by Ban and Suwa; glad that Ban's finally coming into the story! It's also funny how Yua is actually ultimately correct with her theory, just for the wrong reasons in retrospect.

Sidenote but I think I am going to adopt "Snake" (as a term for internet detectives, referencing MGS) into my vocabulary. I find it very amusing, I assume it's a Japanese internet thing but it sounds great. Also, recreating the PHANTASM website and putting their albums on it could be a potential fun fan project to add to the forum here.



Quote of the Day

(this might end up becoming a banner. also, i forgot how often Deluoode appears in this game lol)

Love and 100% agree with your analysis here. For some reason you just aren't allowed to sympathise with any anti-social young man anymore. He HAS to be a villain or some groundbreaking subversion of the hikkineet trope lol.

Thank you! Yeah, it's "strange" how people who supposedly view the world as being under the control of a malignant system (and even claim to view The Committee of 300 as a literalized stand-in for that system if you poke and prod them enough) don't like depictions of young men who can't or refuse to stand the world as it exists under that system!

One thought I've had is that I think apart of it is that Chaos;Head is a title that got a lot more popular than it was probably ever really intended to due to the retroactive success of Steins;Gate, both the VN and anime. Like I kind of understand why people complain about Taku. He's certainly deeply flawed and to a lot of people his struggles will be really hard to comprehend given how difficult of a time people tend to have when it comes to understanding mental illness and social anxiety.

It's a game designed for a really niche audience and if someone just can't vibe with the guy that's totally fine. A lot of those playing it definitely fall far outside of that initial target demographic and just want to go through the rest of the series coming from S;G. I just wish people wouldn't go through all these mental gymnastics to come up with justifications instead of simply going "Yeah I don't like his personality and here's why" lol. Like I don't really vibe with Shinji from Evangelion but I'll never go as far as to call him a bad character or evil or anything like that.

[Parzival]

recreating the PHANTASM website and putting their albums on it could be a potential fun fan project to add to the forum here.

This is honestly a really awesome idea, I would love an irl PHANTASM site and I'm sure plenty of the guys would as well and would be more than willing to assist if need be.

One thought I've had is that I think apart of it is that Chaos;Head is a title that got a lot more popular than it was probably ever really intended to due to the retroactive success of Steins;Gate, both the VN and anime. Like I kind of understand why people complain about Taku. He's certainly deeply flawed and to a lot of people his struggles will be really hard to comprehend given how difficult of a time people tend to have when it comes to understanding mental illness and social anxiety.

It's a game designed for a really niche audience and if someone just can't vibe with the guy that's totally fine. A lot of those playing it definitely fall far outside of that initial target demographic and just want to go through the rest of the series coming from S;G. I just wish people wouldn't go through all these mental gymnastics to come up with justifications instead of simply going "Yeah I don't like his personality and here's why" lol. Like I don't really vibe with Shinji from Evangelion but I'll never go as far as to call him a bad character or evil or anything like that.

Yeah, he's flawed, but so are the rest of the MCs of the series, from Okabe to Pollon. That's what I think makes them likeable while also feeling real. Is Taku a bit more obviously flawed? Sure, I guess, but I find it weird that he gets so much hate for being the average young 21st century schizoid man while we have an MC like Takuru who's basically directly responsible for the events of his story unlike Takumi or Okabe's downright diabolic contemplations in Suzuha's route or his actions in the Gamma Attractor Field.

I get it, Taku and to an extent Chaos;Head as a whole aren't really intended for general audiences like the rest of the series is, but I just wish these people would understand that.

Off-topic but we need to find/make a Taku "Don't look at me!" emote.

[Maypews]

recreating the PHANTASM website and putting their albums on it could be a potential fun fan project to add to the forum here.

This is honestly a really awesome idea, I would love an irl PHANTASM site and I'm sure plenty of the guys would as well and would be more than willing to assist if need be.

One thought I've had is that I think apart of it is that Chaos;Head is a title that got a lot more popular than it was probably ever really intended to due to the retroactive success of Steins;Gate, both the VN and anime. Like I kind of understand why people complain about Taku. He's certainly deeply flawed and to a lot of people his struggles will be really hard to comprehend given how difficult of a time people tend to have when it comes to understanding mental illness and social anxiety.

It's a game designed for a really niche audience and if someone just can't vibe with the guy that's totally fine. A lot of those playing it definitely fall far outside of that initial target demographic and just want to go through the rest of the series coming from S;G. I just wish people wouldn't go through all these mental gymnastics to come up with justifications instead of simply going "Yeah I don't like his personality and here's why" lol. Like I don't really vibe with Shinji from Evangelion but I'll never go as far as to call him a bad character or evil or anything like that.

Yeah, he's flawed, but so are the rest of the MCs of the series, from Okabe to Pollon. That's what I think makes them likeable while also feeling real. Is Taku a bit more obviously flawed? Sure, I guess, but I find it weird that he gets so much hate for being the average young 21st century schizoid man while we have an MC like Takuru who's basically directly responsible for the events of his story unlike Takumi or Okabe's downright diabolic contemplations in Suzuha's route or his actions in the Gamma Attractor Field.

I get it, Taku and to an extent Chaos;Head as a whole aren't really intended for general audiences like the rest of the series is, but I just wish these people would understand that.

Off-topic but we need to find/make a Taku "Don't look at me!" emote.

I quite disliked Takuru in C;C tbh. He's just such an image-obsessed narcissist that it's hard to stomach. I get it plays into the overarching themes of the story (appreciating what you have before it's gone) but I found him so much more difficult to empathise with than someone like Takumi.

Takuru's "struggles" seem a lot more self-inflicted and almost pathological when compared to Takumi's where they seem more like natural after effects of growing up in a flawed environment. The fact that people seem to like him more than Takumi on aggregate kind of blows my mind. Especially when considering the extra context of how much of it he's responsible for that you mentioned yeah.

100% agreed about needing a Taku emote that conveys that feel, whether it's that line or Sono me dare no me. Might look into it.

[Blond]

I quite disliked Takuru in C;C tbh. He's just such an image-obsessed narcissist that it's hard to stomach. I get it plays into the overarching themes of the story (appreciating what you have before it's gone) but I found him so much more difficult to empathise with than someone like Takumi.

Takuru's "struggles" seem a lot more self-inflicted and almost pathological when compared to Takumi's where they seem more like natural after effects of growing up in a flawed environment. The fact that people seem to like him more than Takumi on aggregate kind of blows my mind. Especially when considering the extra context of how much of it he's responsible for that you mentioned yeah.

Ironically enough, that’s why I love Takuru so much. He’s focused and determined to achieve his dream, and he’s going to get it no matter what. His character arc is about him coming to the realization that he is not special nor the genius he thought he was, which resonates with me way too well. While Takumi is the product of overprotective parents, Takuru is the total opposite of that. Hell, he was so lonely that he had to create Serika. I'm sorry, I can't hate my redditor. He's so me... fr!!!!