SUDA51 / Kill The Past (General)

[dokyun]

Both Science Adventure and Kill The Past form a continuous and interwoven narrative through games and other media which are enjoyable in their own right, but are more interesting when considered part of a larger universe. Each entry is markedly different from the previous one, but includes recurring themes and sensibilities that present a similar message from a different angle. It's no mistake, then that if you gather enough SciADV fans together you'd find a lot of Suda fans among them, and there's reasons why that are probably obvious to those of us who've experienced some of both and also other series with similar merits, and also go beyond just games, but for the sake of those who havent I'll try to open up a discussion around that. This thread is also quite overdue, and I want to get it out before I miss the opportunity.

====== Style ======

For a lot of media, style is somewhat of an afterthought, or at least divorced from the substance in some large way. When style is applied fiercely and deliberately, you get something that conveys meaning more truthfully than through just a well-written story or fun game. All of the Kill The Past games exude a lot of raw style, and I've heard a lot of people describe Suda's games as "style over substance" but I think that's wrong. To compare to SciADV, the art direction of Steins;Gate feels very deliberate and unique in a similar way.

====== Otaku Royalty ======

There are many series out there that appeal to the otaku for various reasons, but only a few out of them reward those who can nerd out for hours on end about it. I'd say most series that cross-reference themselves between entries aren't internally consistent, because they're made up along the way or have people with different visions working on them, so you end up with nonsensical retcons and branches in a story that never meaninfully link back to something. Both KTP and SciADV do a pretty good job of keeping themselves internally consistent, and tying up loose ends between entries without copping out.

====== Kill The Past ======

The namesake of the series we're talking about, I'd hope, would be a big enough deal that I'd be able to contrive some deeper connections between it and the other series we're supposed to care about around here. The theme is that to refuse to accept your past is to die; either you kill it or it will eventually kill you. I'm reasonably confident that little brain of yours is already making connections between things you've seen in this series and that one, but let's go over it: people who refuse to accept the circumstances of their past will live out their lives attempting to play out the same patterns, and eventually this breaks down. In both Chaos;Head and Steins;Gate, the main characters are leading lives that external circumstances be damned could easily have gone on the same way, forever. All that Takumi wants to do is be a NEET in his shipping container, and Okabe just wants to screw around with his friends. And from our perspective, these are their life's purposes: their pasts, and the circumstances leading up this are for the most part shrouded in mystery in the beginning. But we know that it's unrealistic for this pattern to go on, some kind of deeper awakening is needed. And so, the terrifying result of this pattern being broken is merely the painful journey of reconciling with the past: it is not only destined, but it is internal. Takumi had to become conscious of his true self calling out to him, and Okabe had to recognize the futility of maintaining the status quo, and create a better future than the ones he'd been dealt. (If you think that little mini-analysis is bullshit then please say so.)

====== Jump Over The Age ======

Originally I was going to use the phrase "Fight The Future" from TSC but then I remembered this one and I think it sounds cooler. @Parzival had a really good quote about how this philosophy is espoused in SciADV: which I don't have on hand so you're just gonna have to wait till I get it and update the thread.


Okay fuckhead, but what about the games?
Since I haven't gone through each and every entry in the series at the time of writing, I will update this OP with more info as time goes on. Since this is a (General) thread and it is implied that here be spoilers, I don't mind if you want to bring up games that aren't listed here.

The Silver Case
This Is Wonderful Terrorism

I WILL WRITE ABOUT THE SILVER CASE LATER. IT IS 1AM AND I AM TIRED. PLEASE GIVE YOUR THOUGHTS ON IT IN THE MEANTIME

Flower, Sun and Rain
Lay Back And Let Time Stand Still

I WILL WRITE ABOUT FLOWER SUN AND RAIN LATER. IT IS 1AM AND I AM TIRED. PLEASE GIVE YOUR THOUGHTS ON IT IN THE MEANTIME

* Ways To Play *

For the longest time the only way to play Flower, Sun and Rain in English has been through the DS version, and for all intents and purposes this is still what I think most people are going to end up doing; there's a lot of pros to the DS version including additional content and the fact that you're able to carry the mystery of Lospass Island around with you in your pocket, much like Sumio carries around his briefcase. However, there's a very recent development, that of an English translation of the original PS2 version, which @Saki was nice enough to bring to our attention and give some commentary. I plan on replaying FSR someday anyway, and I think it would be a fine way of experiencing it a second time.

Killer7
The World Won't Change, All It Does Is Turn

oh_lawd_im_comin.gif (1.88 MiB) Viewed 35 times

Killer7 might as well be the coolest fucking game ever made, and if by some sort of Committee string-pulling it turns out that it isn't, then it at least deserves to be considered. This was Suda and Grasshoper Manufacture's first big break in the West, originally envisioned as one of a collection of five titles to be published by Capcom to bolster the Gamecube's library. Of those games are also Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe, and a couple others that no one cares about. Killer7 was an early example that brought to the attention of the unwashed masses the idea of "video games as art", which to deny nowadays is treated as something like the gaming equivalent of denying the Armenian genocide. It also garnered enough attention, in no short part due to its copious amounts of blood, sex and fuck words to be thrown into the pool of violent video games and satanic rap music which were making the youth ask too many questions about the government and get suspended for bringing ninja stars to school.

Guys like this make me understand why the Chinese started killing old people.

JackThompsonAttorney_crop.jpg (23.34 KiB) Viewed 35 times

Killer7 is kind of in a crop of games where sometimes I wonder how the hell it actually got made. The richness of not just the game itself but the air of everything around it makes it feel like Suda intentionally seized his opportunity to say what he wanted to say to the right audience. To quote the man himself:

Once you've beaten the game, the real killer7 begins, and if the players connect it to their everyday lives, they'll arrive at the truth. Just like terrorism, the tale of killer7 is a neverending battle.

* Ways To Play *

Today there are 3 different versions of Killer7 you can play: the original GameCube release, the PS2 port, and the PC remaster. The GameCube release was for the longest time what everyone recommended, since the PS2 version sucked in comparison even back then. I played the PC version and had no problems with it, and it looked great: the only reccomendation I would make is to play it with a GameCube controller if you can, since that's what the game and its notoriously strange control scheme was designed around; the PC release has keyboard/mouse controls but they make the game way too easy, at least in my opinion. So either play it on your PC with an adapter, or play it on your GameCube or Wii. The original game is hard to get physically but if you got this far then you're probably smart enough to do the rest of the math on that.


No More Heroes
Head For The Garden of Madness

travis_charges_up.gif (509.58 KiB) Viewed 35 times

While it can be posited as considerably more "normie-friendly" on the surface than many of GHM's past titles, No More Heroes still keeps in style with its raw energy, characters, cultural references, and copious amounts of blood. It's also just a really fucking fun game (enough that I went through it twice), so its no wonder it ended up being Suda's next knock out of the park after Killer7. NMH is the kind of thing that comes to my mind when I want "video games" distilled to their most pure essence, with everything the phrase entails; that it's a Wii game and makes heavy use of the motion controls is almost the cherry on top. (I'm surprised at the amount of people who're really into the Wii library but haven't played it.)

If you think about it, No More Heroes does a lot of service in depicting Western otaku culture through a parody at a time where a lot of that stuff was essentially very infantile and self-unaware. Even though Travis Touchdown is a virgin who cranks it to anime figures, the fact that you're able to help him see through to his goals, which boil down to wanting to look cool in front of his girlfriend and get laid, feels like a metaphor for putting the sword in all of our hands, but for real. Travis's monologue during the first bossfight kind of hit me deeply, as someone who's desperately thirsted for something that'll inject some fucking life into the dog and pony show that's my existence, despite not really knowing what paths are right to take. His cocksure attitude towards everything ends up making him come off like a badass in spite of how much of a dork he is. (Another character that felt similar to me was Ocelot in MGS3. Just because you're a goofball doesn't mean you can't be cool at the same time, or be the one in control.) Some people in their gay analyses describe him as a psychopath or just depressed, but that's pretty fucking reductive considering the shows of emotion he actually does have throughout the story. Everyone's wanted to try and be a bad motherfucker ever since the dawn of testosterone, but it's hard to really do that without sacrificing the small things that already bring us joy, and if you're an otaku you're probably aware of how much those things make up a significant part of your life. Representing that struggle I think is a big part of what No More Heroes is about.

* Ways To Play *

There is the original Wii releases, the scuffed PS3 and 360 ports, and the newer re-releases for PC and Switch. The original Wii releases make heavy use of the Wiimote's motion controls for doing execution moves with the beam katana, while on other platforms they are a more standard hack-and-slash experience and use joystick input to supplement motion control. The Switch re-release gives you either option, letting you use the joycons much the same way you would use the Nunchuck+Wiimote combo in the original. The North American regional release for the Wii is the only original release that retains the absurd amounts of blood, so its worth playing that version if you are going to go that way; subsequent re-releases retain the violence. The Heroes' Paradise ports for the PS3 and 360 were done by an external studio from GHM. In the visual department there is a clear upgrade in the form of smearing the entire game in vaseline and the addition of a model viewer mode which allows you to ogle at the more scantily clad costumes of the game's female characters. There is also some extra side content, quality of life features and a reduction in the map size of Santa Destroy.

If you want to play the game the way it was originally intended, either the original NA Wii release or the re-release on Switch with motion controls is the way to go. If you don't have a Switch and just want to play it right now, the PC version is probably fine, but it is known to have stability problems.

[rancher]

Why you should play these games:

• highly aesthetic
• mind bending
• old enough, easy to emulate

I am currently playing through "The Silver Case" (1999, visual novel), "Flower, Sun, Rain" (2001, mystery), "killer7" (2005, rail shooter), and "No More Heroes" (2007, beat em up). All of the games are underwhelming in the first chapter but will quickly "get you" by chapter 2. The correct way to play "Kill the Past" : all the games, at the same time, on the Nintendo New 3DS (hint: using Moonlight client)

I like the Silver Case (playing the switch remake, emulated) because it's an incredibly beautiful VN . An easy game with chapters told out of order but gameplay is fairly linear within each chapter. The story is pretty good and more importantly, it's a very beautiful game in terms of UI and music and all that.

I like "Flower, Sun, Rain" (the Nds vertsion) because it fits along well with games like Trace Memory, Phoenix Wright, and other ... not old school but... middle school? puzzly adventure games. Pretty casual and relaxing game, but you'll want to play it with a notepad nearby. (I love games that make you keep notes.) An interesting article for fence sitters: Flower, Sun, and Rain: The Anti-Game? You play a "searcher" who is constantly stumbling across puzzles that require numbers to solve. Larger than life characters, time loops, deeper conspiracies at play.... guy is a lot like the Big O negotiator.

killer7 is an incredibly beautiful and freaky game with unusual controls. I'm playing the PC remake. This game is a lot harder than the first two games... which almost play themselves. But it's not a hard game. You should not play this game if you are schizophrenic or you've smoked too much weed. The character is a super hitman with 7 different personalities that are playable characters that have different gimmicks, strengths, and weaknesses. Switch between them depending on circumstances. Level up their skills as you proceed. It becomes conspiratorial and political quick. Too much focus about Japan unfortunately, or as we refer to it in my household, the Pedophile Archipelago. What an awful chain of islands.

No More Heroes -- wow, almost 20 years old now! The PC game is a total slam dunk and totally stands the test of time. It's a lot more accessible than prior entries. You are Travis Touchdown, a loser hero NEET who loves pro wrestling, moe anime, and his pet cat. You live in a shitty motel room. After winning a lightsaber on ebay, you decide to become the #1 hitman in the world because it sounds cool; when a representative of the hitman organization asks what you want when you become the #1 killer in the world, you answer "to bang her" which she approves of, to add as further fuel. It feels a lot like viewtiful joe or wario world to me and it becomes nuanced as it goes on.